RockScotland

Although not exactly young or even new, GUN will make their proper mark on the UK rock scene over the coming months.

Recent performances at the Garage have proved that they're stronger than ever!

gallus

gallus wrote:Recent performances at the Garage have proved that they're stronger than ever!

I don't think that you'll find anyone who doesn't agree that the band are 1000% better now with Toby Jepson on board replacing Mark 'Boab Bon Jovi' Rankin.

The band always had a decent set but unfortunately Rankin just couldn't reproduce the vocals live due to the over production of the recorded material and his general lack of ability. However, Toby is a professional vocalist and things can only get better with all the old songs sounding great.

They'll still need to look at getting a guitarist who can play lead though, as Jools Gizzi is an OK rhythm guitarist but he's never been able to play lead. Don't forget that in almost every incarnation of GUN (even in Blind Alley he had Ian Murray) there was always a lead guitarist involved - from the abysmal Davie Aitken to Baby Stafford.

The addition of Gordon McNeil on drums has also improved the rhythm section as Alan Thornton was never really up to the task either (being ejected from the original GUN at the same time as Aitken and bassist Cami Morlotti).

I hope they can do something this time around!

Axeman

On the subject of the post by Axeman.
I think you will find there are mixed feelings regarding the new line-up, and to your opinions regarding ex members.
It seems to be split down the middle. After attending the Carling gig after show party last evening and having talked to many of the fans, Most say Toby is ok but it aint the same without Mark, whether he wasn't the best singer in the world or not.
Also many people say the drums were not as good as Al Thornton and there's a definate lack of feel and dynamics in the rhythm section.
If Al wasn't up to the task then they would never have asked him to be involved with the band this time round.
The reason he left the band recently is a family related matter and nothing to do with his ability.
I ain't saying either way as I think the band are good, that's what alot of others are saying.

As for your comments RE Jools, you obviously play guitar and have your opinions, but you have to remember, ALL the guitar parts in ALL the songs were written by Jools and, in my opinion, he is a great guitarist and his playing suits the songs.
Also, no matter which album you listen to, Jools did the vast majority of solos on them, whether he was playing with Alec Dickson, Baby or whoever, and the comments about having another guitarist along side him I'm afraid I can't agree with.
Every guitarist he has played with from Blind Allez through Phobia to Gun (with the exception of Alec) ain't been up to the task.
I remember Blind Allez and to tell the truth, Ian Murray ain't a great guitarist and wasn't up to playing solos, have seen him recently with 5 Past Midnight and he all that I'm afraid.
So syaing that Jools has always had someone to do the solos ain't exactly relevent.
Check out the recent Blind Allez reformation gigs on Youtube and this will confirm it.

Steal Your Fire - Ian Solo Blind Allez
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ByPKlYD6zQc

Don't Say It's Over - Jools solo TITP
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3K3SQo3ZQQA

As for David Aitken, nothing wrong with his playing. I personally think the use of the
word Abysmal is an insult to the guy.

You obviously know something of the guys as you seem to know there names and nicknames as in the Mark "Boab Bon Jovi" Rankin comment.
And you seem to feel that you know them well enough to pass fairly cutting comments about them.
Would be interesting to know who you are, and if you can post any vids of your own playing . . . . ?

Anyhoo, that's my wee tupence worth, lol.

x x x x

Chops wrote:having talked to many of the fans, Most say Toby is ok but it aint the same without Mark, whether he wasn't the best singer in the world or not.

Let's face it, Toby is an experienced vocalist and certainly is a lot more versatile than Rankin so things were always going to improve.

I've always wondered if Mark Rankin would ever have been in a band if Peter Scallan hadn't left Blind Alley to form a band with Davie Aitken?

Gun had so many chances back in the day but unfortunately nobody was really that interested and it's no secret that the original deal for Phobia only came because of Rankin being related to Sharleen Spiteri - not because Phobia were anything special.

A lot of money was spent on Gun first time around so it'll be interesting to see how it goes this time! I hope that something comes of it as Jools Gizzi deserves a better chance than he got. It'll be down to marketing I suppose?

Chops wrote:Also many people say the drums were not as good as Al Thornton and there's a definate lack of feel and dynamics in the rhythm section. If Al wasn't up to the task then they would never have asked him to be involved with the band this time round.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Thornton booted out of Phobia/Gun at the same time as Cami Morlotti and Davie Aitken because Jools and Rankin didn't think they were up to it? Gordo is a very versatile drummer (although GoGoBot are best forgotten) and has a lot more finesse and he's brought a lot to the band.

It was no secret that it was always going to be a temporary arrangement for Thornton this time round either.

Chops wrote:I remember Blind Allez and to tell the truth, Ian Murray ain't a great guitarist and wasn't up to playing solos, have seen him recently with 5 Past Midnight and he all that I'm afraid.

Being from Bishopbriggs I always knew Ian Murray (and the rest of Cannes) and Ian was always one of the better lead guitarists on the Glasgow scene and his stuff with Cannes was pretty impressive. I have to admit that it's a shame to see him playing with 5 Past Midnight now as they're really nothing more than a covers band.

Chops wrote:As for David Aitken, nothing wrong with his playing. I personally think the use of the word Abysmal is an insult to the guy.

I would have used the word "average" rather than abysmal myself and I have to admit that Davie Aitken wasn't that bad - I remember him in his original band Arena (with Stuart Green on vocals) when he used to attempt Rush's La Villa Strangiato (which was possibly a bit of a stretch for him).

Chops wrote:You obviously know something of the guys as you seem to know there names and nicknames as in the Mark "Boab Bon Jovi" Rankin comment.

You wouldn't have to be that close to anyone from the band as there can't be many people who used to hang around The Venue back in the 80's who don't know Mark Rankin as "Boab". Even Jools and Cami still refer to Rankin as "Boab".

However, all this stuff is only opinion and as we all know, actual ability and success in the music world aren't really related.

I think someone's hit a nerve with Mr Chops and he maybe shouldn't take it too seriously!

goblin

Just to let you know, it's Miss Chops . . . . .
And nobody has hit a nerve, just putting my opinions forward.
Was a fan of the band, that's all and I saw them in every incarnation.

Now then . . . . I was going to reply to you and point out all the parts of your post that are, basically, rumour and hearsay, but, you obviously think you know all about the band and I ain't got time to go through it and tell you where you are wrong.

x x x x

Yep, everyone has their opinion and it's good to hear them all, you don't have to agree with them but you have to respect other peoples.....

Here's mine....

I think that every GUN line up has had it's merits... Mark rankin's voice suited the GUN sound on the old songs, yet Toby brings a new dimension to the songs and I think when the new material comes out in 2009 he will fit right in, as he will have had an input in the writing proccess. People are used to hearing GUN with Mark's voice so it's normal that it takes time to get used to a new voice on the old stuff. The singer is always the most difficult member of the band to replace. Toby in my opinion is the only singer around today who can carry this off...

Whilst GUN as a four piece sounds great, another guitar would help a little, especially as Jools is not 19 any more and it would give him a break now and again to catch his breath. lol But whether they are a four or a five piece it makes no difference.

As far as drums go, don't forget that Alan played drums at the recording of several GUN songs in the studio and is a very competent drummer. He is also a talented vocalist.

In fact I would go as far saying that from Al through to Gordon all the drummers they have had have been on top form and it was great to see both Gordon and Scott performing at the Academy gig.


As for a lot of money being spent on promoting GUN in the past from A&M I have to disagree. I don't think that A&M promoted them well enough and concentrated on their more established acts rather than investing in the new talent at the time. I also think GUN could have been huge as they were on the verge of it with Swagger, then someone at the record company decided to bring in a certain Australian producer for their next album and the momentum vanished. A band has to be huge (U2 size) before they can start experimenting with their sound and I think GUN were advised to do it too early. My opinion on this is that GUN are fantastic at writing and performing rock songs and I think they should stick with that style of music as opposed to the 'poppier' sound of 0141 (which they should re - release as a GUN produced version as the demos are immense).

As for the future, I think if the guys do things properly, keep as much control over their material, marketing, promotion as they can (instead of signing their souls to the devil with a record label) and learn from their initial experiences first time round, then sky is the limit for them.

Chops wrote:After attending the Carling gig after show party last evening and having talked to many of the fans, Most say Toby is ok but it aint the same without Mark, whether he wasn't the best singer in the world or not.
Also many people say the drums were not as good as Al Thornton and there's a definate lack of feel and dynamics in the rhythm section.

I was at the gig and the aftershow as well and most people seemed to be of the opinon that the band were stronger than ever.

I definately don't recall anyone saying that Gordo's drumming wasn't as good as Alan Thornton and to suggest that the rhythm section was lacking is nonsense.

While my post might have been critical and hurt your feelings it mirrors the opinion of most people. Boab & Al are gone and while there's obviously a bit of a yearning for the past from yourself, the new upgraded GUN is much stronger and everyone seems to see the addition of Gordo and especially Toby as a positive move.

Certainly Jools has been saying that he's happier with the current line-up and so he should be as the TOTW gig was a triumph and everyone is looking forward to hearing new material from this line-up.

But the fact is, my original post was was supporting the band and commenting on how they had improved. Let's face it they're not going to turn back into Blind Alley are they? Hopefully not!

Chops wrote:You obviously know something of the guys as you seem to know there names and nicknames as in the Mark "Boab Bon Jovi" Rankin comment.
And you seem to feel that you know them well enough to pass fairly cutting comments about them.

Just like YOU seem to know Ian Murray and feel qualified to pass derogatory comments on his playing!

Anyway, forums are places to pass opinions and you shouldn't take it to heart.

I'm afraid everyone in Glasgow knows the Blind Alley/Phobia/Gun story and everyone from these bands so I'm maybe not as close as yourself?

As for Boab, everyone who hung around the Venue back in the 80's knew Mark Rankin as Boab long before he lucked in with Blind Alley when Peter left to join Davie Aitken's band.

Try to lighten up a bit!

Axeman

P.S. I'm surprised that you didn't suggest that Cami should replace Dante as well?

Chops wrote:Ian Murray ain't a great guitarist and wasn't up to playing solos, have seen him recently with 5 Past Midnight and he all that I'm afraid.
So syaing that Jools has always had someone to do the solos ain't exactly relevent.
Check out the recent Blind Allez reformation gigs on Youtube and this will confirm it.

Steal Your Fire - Ian Solo Blind Allez
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ByPKlYD6zQc

Don't Say It's Over - Jools solo TITP
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3K3SQo3ZQQA

The two links that you've posted here only confirm whats already been suggested and that's that Joolz Gizzi isn't really a lead guitarist.

Nobody suggested that Joolz wasn't any good, just that he is basically a rythym guitarist and I don't think he'd deny that! There's no shame in being a rythym guitarist!

I also don't personally know anyone from any of these bands but I do feel that I can give my opinion (including what you might think is derogatory to your local heroes) as I remember Blind Alley, Cannes, Phobia et al. Remember, it's my opinion, not a personal attack on you - which you seem to consider some of the other posts.

The clip of Ian Murray certainly doesn't show that he "ain't a great guitarist" and it's a cracking solo and unfortunately the clip from TITP with Joolz doesn't really feature a great solo at all! I also remember Ian in the original lineup of Cannes and at the time there wasn't a band in Glasgow who could match them for class whereas Blind Alley didn't exactly command any respect (although maybe just a bit more than Trident ) on the Glasgow scene.

I also have to agree with previous posters and that is that the current line-up of Gun is the strongest yet and I would never have considered myself even close to being a fan of the band previously. Toby has brought some much needed rock credibility to Gun.

At the risk of upsetting you though, I will point out that it's good to see Jack Black on vocals in the clip from Rockers!

crazy_train